Birdy Rivers is an award-winning author. She was born in NJ and now resides in GA with her family. She has been writing since her teens and professionally writing since her mid-twenties. When she isn't writing she is raising her three daughters whom she jokingly refers to as her baby dragons and spending time with family and friends. Before Birdy became a full-time Author and Editor she worked as a Medical Assistant. She enjoys reading, the outdoors, gaming with her hubby, and music. Music and writing have served as therapeutic measures for her depression and anxiety. Birdy is a huge mental health advocate and often features the struggles of mental health in her stories.
[00:00:00] Toni Kirkland
This is Toni with the Hidden Bookstore Club, and I am here with author Birdie Rivers, who writes Paranormal romance. And how are
you today, Bertie?
[00:00:11] Birdy Rivers
I am good. How are you?
[00:00:14] Toni Kirkland
Trying to stay warm?
[00:00:16] Birdy Rivers
Yes. Warm and awake. Well, I'm trying to stay awake.
[00:00:21] Toni Kirkland
Oh, that would be nice. I have coffee. Coffee?
[00:00:24] Birdy Rivers
I had I had Starbucks this morning. I needed the extra. Were the at home Coffee just isn't quite going to cut it. You need the there's
something magical, right, about going out and getting your coffee. There's something extra that makes it feel better inside. So that
was that was my on my agenda today. I was like, I need Starbucks.
[00:00:45] Toni Kirkland
There is something magical about Starbucks. I don't know how they make their coffee, but that is not it is magical.
[00:00:53] Birdy Rivers
And actually Starbucks was my first job that I started that I worked when I was 16 until about 19 when I started college. And it was a
fun place to work. I'm not going to lie. Like, I don't know if it's still like that. I mean, we're talking it's been a hot minute, so, you know,
I'm no longer 16, so we're talking over ten plus years. So I have no idea what it is to work there now. But when I worked there, it was
a lot of fun. And like, I wish I figured out the magic to their coffee other than just. It's really tasty.
[00:01:24] Toni Kirkland
Yes. I need you to go back and work at Starbucks so we can figure this out.
[00:01:32] Birdy Rivers
No. Right. Well, I'll make coffee or, like, drinks for people, and they're like, Why do you make them so fancy? And I'm like, I worked at
Starbucks for like three and a half years. Okay. It's like inbred it in my brain to, like, be a barista, you know? And, like, not that I could
do, like, fancy coffee art or anything like that, but, you know, like, I know how to make a drink look pretty.
[00:01:53] Toni Kirkland
It's an experience. That's why we make it look pretty.
[00:01:57] Birdy Rivers
Exactly.
[00:02:01] Toni Kirkland
Ok, so let's start off. You have you have a stand alone, which is the voice of the sea. And then you have three. Series, The Shattered
Series Children, the Empire Series. And the Coven Legacy Series.
[00:02:18] Birdy Rivers
Yes.
[00:02:21] Toni Kirkland
And then the heaven and the crow just got the runner up Craft award.
[00:02:29] Birdy Rivers
Yes. Yeah, they that was really exciting to get that. I'm hoping to make it to the award ceremony that they do. I think it's sometime in
the spring or summer. I think it's going to be in Louisiana. So hopefully. Well, they have to. Have enough participants to do it in
person with all the COVID guidelines and stuff. So hopefully enough people are interested in doing the actual award ceremony
because I think that would be really fun to participate in. So I did get like all the stickers and the official certificate and all that good
stuff. So but I think an actual ceremony would be really fun to participate in.
[00:03:14] Toni Kirkland
Ceremonies are fun. I've held one before and it was super fun. That's part of what I want to do in 2024, too, is I'm going to start my
own awards with the Hidden Bookshelf Club, and there will be a ceremony where people can get their awards.
[00:03:33] Birdy Rivers
Yes, I'm definitely all for that. Making it makes it feel official and I think it makes it feel more real, if that makes sense. Like it's like one
thing to, like, get the stickers and like, your official certificate, but it's like another thing to actually participate in a ceremony where
you're getting an award, hand it to you and it feels more like realistic and real at that point for some reason.
[00:03:58] Toni Kirkland
And it gives us a reason to get gussied up.
[00:04:01] Birdy Rivers
Exactly. And when you're a mom, I feel like as a mom, I don't I don't get to dress up all that often or like wear makeup or do anything.
And kudos to all the moms who actually do get up and do their hair and makeup, because I don't have that kind of energy. But I
applaud those that do.
[00:04:23] Toni Kirkland
Yeah, my. There is no makeup on this space this morning.
[00:04:29] Birdy Rivers
No, no, I hardly I have makeup, but I couldn't tell you the last time I actually put it on, like I think it may have been for, like. Goodness
gracious. I think it may have been for the twins like first birthday party three years ago. So, yeah, it's been a hot minute since I've
actually put makeup on and done my hair and, you know, put other than I like to call them bum clothes, you know, like sweatpants or
pajama pants. And a t shirt.
[00:05:05] Birdy Rivers
Maybe you can call them bum. It's fine. Yeah. Total bum clothes. I can't even tell you the last time I've worn, like, jeans or anything
like that. We just stick to leggings and sweatpants and all that good stuff because it's easier.
[00:05:19] Toni Kirkland
So I know that on your. Heaven series, the last book you put in that the Coven series itself was finished, but there was going to be a
spinoff. Can you tell us a little bit about your spinoff.Series that you're going to start?
[00:05:34] Birdy Rivers
Yes. So the last book of the series is going to be released early next year, probably end of January. At the beginning of February. It's
complete. It's off to the editor now. So it kind of depends on how quick she can go through it. So that will be the last book and that
one's new era. And so just kind of to briefly go over the series so each book can be read as a standalone, but I suggest you read
them all because it helps you kind of gauge the world that's created. So the first each book features a different couple, but obviously
the couples from the previous books make their own know. They make appearances throughout. So the first book is, is about
orientation. They're the the main couple that kind of constantly reappears. And then the next three books in the series, Ghost Opera,
Mayhem and Death and New Era are about their kids. So each kid gets their own book. And then the spinoff series is going to be the
legacy continues, and that is going to be about the grandkids or the kids kids. So I have that in the works. It's basically my goal is to
basically have it as a series of different novels. So there will be a volume one and a volume two, and the first volume is going to
focus on Ever and Kai's children. And then the second part of it is going to focus all on Rebel's children.
[00:07:17] Birdy Rivers
So she had a little bit more than her siblings. So they kind of get their own and they're also separated for their own reasons because
they are in kind of a different world. And if you read the books, you kind of understand why they will be separated and why they're in
different realms. So I'm really excited about that one. I've got the first part of it in the works. I've actually started writing it and getting it
going, and that will those two will definitely be released next year. After New ERA comes out. One will probably be released in the
spring and then one will be released in the summer. And I'm kind of interesting because I've never really done it like a collection of
like novels and together to release it will be kind of like an anthology, but just all written by me, if that makes sense. Just no different
authors, just me. But I'm excited to do it this way. I didn't want to do each one like an actual book because I felt it would just be kind of
dragging it out a little too much. And I want to tell their stories, but I don't want it to feel like it's dragged out. And so I decided to do
them kind of like short novels and then publish a couple together and then do kind of a volume one and a volume two. So I'm pretty
excited about that.
[00:08:43] Birdy Rivers
I really have enjoyed this series. It's probably no, it is my favorite series that I've ever written so far. I've enjoyed it, I've enjoyed the
characters. There's a lot of myself in these characters, especially Ari. She is kind of a carbon copy of me, and Zane is kind of a
carbon copy of my fiance. So I put a lot of me and my experiences into these particular characters and storylines. So I very much
enjoyed writing the series and it's definitely probably the more popular of my series so far. So I've really enjoyed this series and so I
was kind of sad to have the main series end, but then I was like, I'm going to do a spinoff series. So when the spinoff series ends, I'm
probably going to be kind of like a not disappointed, but it's going to be like the closing of an error, if that makes sense. You're going
to have empty nest syndrome. Yes, Yes. With my books. Yeah. But there's always new ones to be written. I'm always working on like
even now I'm working on. So for like Voice of the Sea and the Children of the Empire, those are all retellings. So Children of the
Empire is retelling of Snow White, Rapunzel, Beauty and the Beast, Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty. All, all of them interact. It's kind
of if anyone's ever watched Once Upon a Time, it's kind of that kind of concept where they all interact in their own world type thing.
[00:10:23] Birdy Rivers
So you get to see the multiple princesses interacting and their stories intertwined. And then Voice of the Sea is The Little Mermaid. I
kind of felt like that was obvious, but to put that out there, so that's my Little Mermaid retelling. I will have a Red Riding Hood retelling
that I'm planning on releasing probably towards the end of 2023. And that one's going to be called Hunting My Wolf. And that is a. It
is. And when I say retellings, these are all kind of like loose retellings, if that makes sense. They're not exact retellings. They're more
just kind of loose retellings of them. And another one that I have in the works is kind of an Aladdin retelling, and this one was probably
the more looser of all of the retellings that I've ever done. But it's going to have elements. You're going to see things and you're going
to be like, Oh, that's you know, this, you're relate it back. And if you're a big Disney nerd like me, you're going to probably relate
things back to the Disney version of things, even though there's obviously more than one, the Disney version is the more popular
version, but there are multiple versions of of the fairy tales out there. So I like to pull from all the different versions of the fairy tales,
not just the Disney version. So I usually spend a good amount of time researching all the different fairy tales and their different
different stories across the different cultures and things like that, and kind of pull them on, pull it all in.
[00:11:59] Birdy Rivers
And then obviously I add my own little twists to it. So I will have a couple of retellings coming out next year. But the big thing is
completing the Completing the Coven series and getting the spin off complete two and then releasing a couple of other ones. And
then I do have books on some of the reading apps like Good Novel and I Reader and places like that that are kind of I write as I go.
They're not necessarily complete. I mean, they obviously eventually end up being complete, but when they start them off, they're not
usually complete. It's just kind of I write as I go, which is totally different than releasing the books out on Amazon and having it all
complete. And I like both styles. It's so depending on the story, like when I'm coming up with a story, my, my always debated is, okay,
is this going to be an Amazon story that I'm going to release on Amazon and Barnes and Noble? Or is this going to be like a reading
app story that I'm just going to kind of work on as I go and put them out there as I go? So I will have a couple new stories going out on
the reading apps next year as well.
[00:13:14] Toni Kirkland
Busy, busy.
[00:13:15] Birdy Rivers
Very busy with the three kiddos and all the and all my writing. But I feel like if I'm not busy then I'm in my own head. And, you know, I
don't know if you like me, but I don't like being in my head, so. I like. To keep. Busy.
[00:13:15] Toni Kirkland
so if someone was new to reading paranormal romance books, which book would you hand them to start with of yours?
[00:13:49] Birdy Rivers
I would hand them the Coven series because. It's kind of classical paranormal romance. In the sense that there is a lot of different
elements that get brought into the series. There's tons of one off tons, but there's different supernatural's in there. It's not just
warlocks. So the premise of the story is warlocks that have shifters as their familiars. So for Ari, she is a lycan. Zane is a warlock, but
he's also a little bit more than that. He is a demigod. So there's a kind of a Greek mythology hint throughout the series of you kind of
get the vibes of like a. Not an Olympic spy that you get. There's the five, which are your main gods. So you have the main 12 Gods of
Olympus, So you have the main five that cover that are the main gods. You get a little bit of other supernatural like gargoyles and
phoenixes. Unicorns come into play. Dragons will be coming into play. In the spinoff series. You get different types of hybrids. So in
Ghost Opera, you get a. A ghost human hybrid. And then Zane and Ari's children are hybrids. So you get a warlock or witch hybrid
mixed with Lycans. So there's a lot of fun and different elements that kind of go into play. And of course, it's spicy. So those who like
the smutty books will enjoy them. I would also say Voice of the Sea is pretty good, but it's a little bit darker, so you have to be a little
bit prepared for that one. So if you're not necessarily into a darker retelling or a darker story, that one might not be for you. So that's
why I say Coven, because even though there's like smutty, smutty scenes and stuff, it's it's not there's some darker undertones like
you will see, like there is the whole alpha male vibe going on there with like your submissive female vibe, who's also kind of a badass
heroine at the same time. So it's a little bit more kind of friendly to, to all types of tropes, if that makes sense.
[00:16:45] Toni Kirkland
So would you give the coven also to someone who has decided that paranormal romance is their genre and they read it often?
[00:16:56] Birdy Rivers
Yes, I would, because so it's a great I like the series because it's a great introductory into paranormal if you are looking to be
introduced into the genre. But it's also good for people who love the genre because it is classic. It does have a lot of great paranormal
elements, like I said, with like bringing in the different supernatural species, the different shifters. There's a hybrid factor, there's a
whole soul mate factor of kind of if you take like the werewolf concept of fate, it mates, but they don't call them fat inmates except for
the actual Lycans and werewolves that exist in the world. There's multiple realms. Each story is a little different, you know, there's
different aspects to it. There's other demigods that get bought in throughout the series. So it's it's a kind of to me, I feel like it's like a
classical paranormal romance, that it has all the right elements to make it a great introductory to the to the genre. But it's also that
classic that makes it like you enjoy it. So you just want to enjoy a classic paranormal romance because, you know, a lot of times with
paranormal romance, especially now, a lot of people. Get a little crazy with it. And that's not bad because I know I definitely have
gotten my crazy versions of paranormal romance that I've written, but sometimes it's nice to have that classic just, you know. What
you originally got into the genre for, if that makes if that makes sense.
[00:18:36] Toni Kirkland
Yeah. I mean, you want those people. You want both of them. You want the people who are just getting into it to be able to enjoy it,
but also the seasoned veterans of the genre to find enjoyment in it as well.
[00:18:52] Birdy Rivers
Exactly. And it's it's like I said, it's a fun series. It's a good series. There's a lot of different elements. Each book in the series has
something a little different for each paranormal, you know, offer something to each paranormal lover, you know? So there's, you
know, hybrids, There's different types of shifters that get brought in. There's the demigod factor, there's multiple realms. There is a
werewolf slash like in factor, like, I don't know, I'm a big werewolf, like in person. Like they're definitely in my favorite top number one
supernatural out of all of them. So I do write a lot of werewolf and like in romance, but I do obviously like to add in other other things
like warlocks and witches and different shifters like phoenixes and unicorns, gargoyles. So and I like that this series has a little bit of
everything in there. Like it's not just focused on one type of supernatural. A lot of paranormal romances focus on just like one or two
supernatural races. They might mention a few others. You know, they might get brought into conversation. But this really does
feature several different types of shifters, different hybrids, warlocks, witches. So you get a lot of different different things in it. So
each book is a little brings a little something new to the table, brings us something a little new, interesting, a new supernatural to kind
of explore and see different powers, different abilities for each thing. So it's very it's very spread out with what it has, and it's spread
out in a good way where you're getting a little bit of everything and not just kind of. One or two things. It's kind of bringing everything
in.
[00:20:48] Toni Kirkland
So I hear the little newborn in the background.
[00:20:53] Birdy Rivers
Yes, she is not same. She doesn't know what she wants. She's like she doesn't know if she wants the bottle, the binky. She's just
trying to figure out her baby life.
[00:21:04] Toni Kirkland
How has it changed things to be juggling a newborn, a set of twins, and trying to be an author?
[00:21:12] Birdy Rivers
It is a challenge. When I started, I started writing probably seven years ago, and so that was a long time before kids came into the
picture. And then I kind of took a break because I moved to Georgia. I was restarting in a new area and then I ended up meeting my
now fiancee and we have our kiddos. And so when the girls got introduced into the picture, I think I started really, truly getting back
into writing when they were. A little over a year old and they kind of were getting into like the whole fairy tale thing, getting into like the
Disney movies and stuff. And so rewatching all the Princess movies is kind of what inspired Children of the Empire to get me back
into being into writing mode. And then that's just kind of spurred everything on since then. Now it's like writing is, and writing is
definitely therapeutic for me. It really does help with like my anxiety and my depression and just, you know, a healthy coping
mechanism to express how I feel and now. So it's been interesting. Know, I found the balance with the twins and so now I have to find
a new balance with the new little edition. So I kind of I've been kind of taking a break, like I'm still writing and still working on things,
but I'm just not kind of like hardcore working through it, especially with the holidays, you know, literally right around the corner. Things
become a little bit more a. Cause, you know, there's more events to go to and things like that. So it is definitely a challenge to find a
new balance. And I totally forgot all about the newborn stage. And considering the twins are going to be four next month, totally forgot
about the newborn stage and the little demands that they have. And little Miss Mave is definitely a she's got some gas going on to
right now. So if you hear her, she's grunting, trying to figure that out. So it's been it's been interesting to figure to figure out a new
balance. But I still. I'm getting there. I'm figuring it out. I'm determined.
[00:23:33] Toni Kirkland
So you mentioned you had moved to Georgia a couple of years ago. What is a couple of the biggest differences you've noticed
between where you used to live in New Jersey to where you live now in Georgia?
[00:23:50] Birdy Rivers
So the biggest thing is southern hospitality is a real thing. It's a very different. Like up north is all at least where I come from. Up in up
north was very you know, everyone's in a rush. Everyone's go, go, go, go, go. Get out of my way. People don't really take the time to,
like, stop and talk or be sociable is just kind of everyone's doing their own thing, trying to get from point A to point B, and they don't
really appreciate it if you're in their way. It's just a very fast pace down here. It is slower, it's a little bit more relaxed. People are a lot
more sociable. I stopped and talk to strangers in Kroger or Wal Mart and had full fledged conversations for 45 minutes to an hour.
That does not usually happen up north unless you know the person personally. But people are very nice down here. They're just that
southern hospitality. There's a lot of just a lot more friendliness, slower pace, like not everyone's in a rush to get where everywhere
you can kind of take your time. There's a lot less horn honking, that's for sure. I mean, not so much when you get into Atlanta, you
know, that's a city, but in the suburbs there's a lot less horn, a lot lot less horn honking and just kind of people taking it easy. And I
kind of enjoy that. It's a lot less stressful. Then I will say that probably the next biggest thing is the food. So like. Down here is a lot of
comfort food. It's a lot of like your barbecue and you're like fried chicken and mac and cheese. And there's also like in this particular
area, I don't know about where you are up in north Georgia, but there's a lot of Mexican restaurants down like in my area. And I enjoy
Mexican food, so I'm all about it. But the barbecue fried chicken, like tons of just like comfort food where like up north, I feel like it's
like burgers and pizza and Philly cheesesteaks, which is not a bad thing. I enjoy all those things, but just definitely, like, different.
We're like, You have a barbecue place on every corner down here, up north. It's like you have a pizza place on every corner. There's
a lot more like mom and pop, like pizza shops and like bagel shops and sub shops up north. Where, like down here, I find there's
more like.
[00:26:20] Birdy Rivers
Small businesses in the sense that like the offering goods, you know what I mean? Like not necessarily food goods, but like it's their
personal own little store where they make their handmade crafts and things like that. So that's kind of a difference. Oh, my goodness,
child, We are just working out our life, aren't we? So there are definitely some differences, but I prefer living down here. I enjoy the
weather, I enjoy the environment a lot more. I'm definitely happy to be raising my kids down here a lot. I said when we were chatting a
little earlier, a lot of people always ask me and be like, Do you want to? Would you ever move back north? And I'm like, Absolutely
not. I just enjoy being in the south. That's kind of more my speed. And but there are definitely I obviously miss certain things, like I
miss I miss the pizza and I miss Philly pretzels because the soft pretzels down here or not, not the same. Actually. I don't even think
you can really find soft pretzels like unless you go to like quick check or something. But even that's not really a soft pretzel when
you've had like actual Philly soft pretzels or like, gone to New York and had a soft pretzel. But hey, we have really good barbecue
down here, so I will take that just as much. It's like a trade off if trading off a different foods.
[00:27:53] Toni Kirkland
I'm such a food junkie like I am.
[00:27:57] Birdy Rivers
Oh, my gosh. Food is like I'm all about food. Like food is food is life to me. I am. All about trying new foods, trying new restaurants. I'm
definitely a food person. I love to cook and I well, I like to bake, but I don't love to bake. I rather cook than bake. I pretty much. Bake. I
bake a lot for the holidays, like I did a whole bunch of like Christmas cookies and stuff like that. And I will make certain things from
scratch. But a lot of times I'll be honest, I bake from the box. But when it comes to cooking, I like to cook from scratch. I'm more of a
cooker than a baker.
[00:28:39] Toni Kirkland
Yeah. I am regaining my love for cooking.
[00:28:46] Birdy Rivers
I've always enjoyed cooking. I originally was going to go to culinary school and become a chef, but then I had decided that I didn't
really want to do that, that I was kind of like, I don't know. I was like, I rather just keep this as a hobby. So I ended up going to
becoming a medical assistant and working in the medical field for about 5 to 6 years before I moved down here. And then once I
moved down here, I kind of got out of the medical field and just kind of enjoyed, you know, kind of setting up everything. And then
before I knew it, I was having kids and I was like, I'm not going back to work any time soon, which is which was fine by me. I was I'm
happy to be a stay at home mom. And it actually gives me time to to work on my writing a little bit more to which is definitely my dream
and what I've always wanted to pursue since I was a teenager. So it's nice to be able to work on my dreams and kind of as much as I
enjoyed working in the medical field, it was it was nice to put it behind me.
[00:29:55] Toni Kirkland
You're speaking of medical. You're also a big advocate for mental health. Did that start when you were in a medical assistant or did
that start prior to that?
[00:30:07] Birdy Rivers
It started prior to that. I have depression, general anxiety and complex PTSD. So I have a chemical imbalance in my brain that
causes my depression. So for me, I have always struggled with mental illness. Like personally, it's just always been something that
has been in my life. And unfortunately I didn't really start working on it until my early twenties. Early to mid twenties, I would say is
when I really started getting like going to therapy and getting help and doing DVT and really just kind of getting it under control. So it
became really important to me because I realized a lot of the reason why I never got help sooner was because of the stigma that
surrounds mental health. And not only that, but, you know, this concept that kids can't have depression or can't have anxiety or can't
have something, they're not allowed to have something wrong with them because I can't tell you how many times I was told as a
teenager, what do you have to be depressed about? What do you have to have anxiety about? You're just, you know, you don't have
any real problems. And how belittled it became. And it wasn't necessarily that I had problems, but there was a chemical imbalance in
my brain. And that's obviously not something that is related to a situation. A lot of my anxiety and my PTSD obviously comes from
traumatic events. And so like when you're reading like my books, you're there are certain things that you're going to be like, Oh crap.
And when you do those low crap moments, yes, the chances are that really did happen to me in some way, shape or form.
[00:32:05] Birdy Rivers
So I just as I became an adult and as I became more involved with my own mental health and getting the help that I needed, I just
became more of an advocate for people to speak up and to want to get the help. Before I moved, when I lived up in New Jersey, I was
part of a group. I originally started off in the group as like a member, but then I ended up helping the woman lead it and helping young
women, teenagers and stuff, and young adults who struggled with mental health and a variety of different ways. A lot of them either
had eating disorders or self-harmed. I was a big self Harmer as a teenager and in my early twenties I because I didn't know how to
cope like that, I didn't know how to deal with my with my mental health. So I had unhealthy coping mechanisms. And so the program
was really focused around helping the the young adults and the and the teenagers who were dealing with depression and anxiety
and PTSD from traumatic events, because this misconception that PTSD is just for soldiers or cops, yes, they definitely have PTSD,
but you can have it from any traumatic event in your life. And unfortunately for me, I've had many traumatic events, but they've all
made me a lot stronger in the end. So working with the youth and working with them and it really became a passion for me to bring
awareness and just kind of break that stigmatism that, you know.
[00:33:45] Birdy Rivers
You can't have problems as a teenager because especially nowadays, like I don't even know how I would survive being a teenager
nowadays, to be quite honest with social media. Like, social media was like barely a thing when I was in high school. Like, I think
MySpace came out when I was in high school. Like to be quite honest. Like it was totally a new thing. There wasn't any of the
cyberbullying. I mean, we had to deal with the classic bullying, you know, like where you had to be bullied in school. And that sounds
horrible to say, but like, that was how it was. But nowadays it's like you have you know, I would listen to these kids who would, you
know, who had to deal with cyberbullying. And I'm like, I don't know if I could survive. I like being a teenager nowadays, but it just
became a serious passion for me. And I'm just I'm all about it. And so, like, even in my books, like, a lot of my characters will deal with
some type of mental illness. And now even I've become really passionate for like autism because my daughter has got diagnosed
over the summer with being on the spectrum and just seeing the stigmatism that surrounds that. And it is something that I'm really
passionate about breaking as well because it's just, you know, there's such there's such beautiful little girls and a lot of people are
like, well, why don't you you know, I never like made the big social media announcement that my kids were diagnosed and people
are like, Well, why don't you do that? Are you ashamed? And I'm like, No, it's not because I'm ashamed, but I just want you to see
them for who they are.
[00:35:11] Birdy Rivers
You know, I don't want you to judge them based on a diagnosis. I want you to see them for who they are. And a lot of people, you
know, who I do tell that I talked to, you know, they're good friends or whatever. They're a lot of them are like, Oh, I don't see them
having that. That's because they see them for who they are and not for a diagnosis. And that's what I want for them. So that's kind of
why I'm a big I'm a big mental health advocate, big advocate for these types of things, just because I've dealt with it personally, I have
I lost my stepbrother to a heroin overdose. He struggled really hard with addiction, so I'm very passionate about helping people with
that, with with a lot with these types of things, reaching out and building that community, breaking that stigmatism that it's okay to get
help and still continue to this day. I mean, I still yes, I've gotten all my help, but I still struggle. I still have my bad days. And I know
when I need a therapeutic measure that's in a healthy therapeutic measure. And writing definitely serves as that for me. So I really
just want to bring awareness because I know the chances are someone out there who's reading is gone through it or is going through
it.
[00:36:27] Toni Kirkland
Yeah, that definitely. That's very close to home. With all the things that I have in my past and people in my life, different things that
different people are dealing with or have dealt with. Yeah, I think. I think probably everybody knows. Somebody that is dealing with
something, whether they know, they know that that person or not. But yeah.
[00:36:54] Birdy Rivers
Yeah, everyone. And that's the thing. You know, a lot of people feel like they have to keep their their mental illness to themselves and
they have to suffer in silence. But that's just so unhealthy. And I didn't realize it was unhealthy. For the longest time I suffered in
silence. I just kept it all to myself and it became really damaging. And I developed unhealthy habits. You know, I developed self harm
habits that because I didn't know how else to cope, because I didn't feel because I was trying to handle it all on my own. And it
became, you know, I became toxic to myself, you know, that I just didn't know how to handle these things. And finally, I just kind of hit
a crossroads one day, like I think I was about 22, 23, and I was at my absolute worst with with harming myself. And I just kind of knew
I was on this path. And I was like, I kind of found myself at a crossroads where it was like, I either get help now or I'm going to end up
dead. Like, it was one of those type of crossroads. And I decided I was going to get help and I asked for help. And it wasn't easy. You
know, no one said asking for help is going to be an easy task, but it became really worth it in the long run. And I was really surprised
about the amount of people who rallied behind me and kind of helped me build a support system that I still have to this day.
[00:38:19] Toni Kirkland
Support is so big.
[00:38:21] Birdy Rivers
It really is like one of the you really do like. That's one of the things people teach you or like one of the big things I learned in like doing
therapy and stuff was like having a support system. And it's definitely it definitely important. And like there are people who are going
to come and go and your support system for one reason or another. But it's always important to have a support.
[00:38:45] Toni Kirkland
System that is and. Staying with the support, but flipping a little bit on the topic, what is some advice you would give to a new author
or somebody who wants to be an author?
[00:39:00] Birdy Rivers
So my big thing is a lot of people get I find when I'm talking to people who want to write or are just starting out, they don't. They either
don't think they can do it or they don't have the talent to do it. Um, or they're kind of, Well, what if no one likes what I write or things
like that? My thing is. Write what you want to write, because there's going to be somebody who's going to want to read it. You might
not think that, but there are hundreds of different types of readers out there, and there is a genre for everybody. Literally, I mean, with
all the different genres and sub genres, there is something out there and you can find a genre that you want to write in and what you
want to write in. There's going to be somebody who's going to want to read it, but most importantly, just write, even if it's not perfect
the first time. Like trust me, like my first couple of books. And even now when I start a book, it's not perfect. It definitely you have to go
back and tweak it and rewrite and do things like that. There's definitely a lot less rewriting for me now because I've been doing it for
so long and I've gotten myself a system where I can develop my plots and characters pretty easily, but I still have to go back and edit
and add things, take things away. I hate the way that was worded, what was I thinking? Type moments. But the important thing is that
I'm writing, that I'm getting the words out and it doesn't have to be perfect. There's this. I feel like like my one friend who is just getting
started on her writing journey.
[00:40:40] Birdy Rivers
She has this concept that everything has to be perfect the first time she puts it down on. And it's like it doesn't have to be perfect. It's
okay. If it's not perfect, you're going to go back and rewrite it anyway, or you're going to go back over and edit and you can change it.
But if you're getting the story out there, you're getting your flow, you're developing your characters. I have notebooks galore in my
house. Like literally every book gets a notebook of some sort where I can and different things. Every story is different. There's not like
not every story is done the same way I do every story a little different, but I always have a notebook for it for how it's going to go. So if
you're writing, if you're doing it, that's the important part. Don't worry about it being perfect. You're going to go back, you're going to
edit it, you're going to rewrite it. And don't worry about like people I've heard people be like, Well, I don't want to rewrite it, but you
have to rewrite it. Like every one of us does a little bit of rewriting in our books. It's just how it goes. Even the best selling authors, they
still go back and rewrite parts of their books, even if it's just one line that's still technically rewriting.
[00:41:50] Birdy Rivers
So as long as you're writing, as long as you're doing it like and and people will be like, Oh, I want to do it because I want to write a
bestseller or I want to make money. And I'll be honest with you. Not everybody writes a best seller, but that doesn't mean your book
isn't good. Just trust me. I've read bestseller and there's and I've read them and I've sometimes I'm like, Yeah, I can see why this is a
bestseller. And then there's other times where I'm like, I don't understand why this is a bestseller, so don't go in with these goals that
you're going to write bestsellers. And if you don't make a bestseller list, it means your book's not good. That's totally not true. And
also, chances are you're not going to make a lot of money right away if you make a lot of money. I know that sounds horrible to say,
but I feel like writing has to be your passion and it has to be something you want to do because you want to do it, not because you're
trying to get something from it. If that if that if that makes sense. It's not to discourage anybody. It's just don't go into this with the
wrong goals in mind because you might end up disappointed if you do.
[00:42:53] Toni Kirkland
Yes, there has to be some passion behind it or you're not going to get through those mundane times when things aren't moving like
you want them to.
[00:43:05] Birdy Rivers
Yes. Yes. You're going to have someone like I have someone where like I really greet and I'm like, yay, income. And then there's
some months where I'm like, Oh, no, what happened? Why is no one reading or why is no one buying? But like, it's not because it's
just it's how it is. Like some months are going to be better than others. It's just how it goes, unfortunately. And then on those months
later, it's not going super great. You get hard on yourself. You're like, you get that imposter syndrome starts to creep in and you have
to remind yourself that you're doing like I am always, constantly like, okay, but I'm not doing it for this reason. I'm doing it because I
like to write. This is my passion, this is my therapy. I'm doing this because I want to do it and not because I'm looking to get
something from it. I mean, it's nice when I get something from it, but it's definitely not always the case.
[00:43:55] Toni Kirkland
Well, Birdy, I've really enjoyed our conversation. Before we let you go, what book is on your nightstand right now?
[00:44:05] Birdy Rivers
So I am reading Come True by Brandi Quinn. It's a Jeannie paranormal romance that's on my Kindle right now. I hardly feel like I
hardly buy paperbacks anymore. I wish. I wish I had more room. I need to find a house where I can build my own library. But I. That's
what I'm currently reading right now. And I am really enjoying it. I wish I could read at a faster pace. I'm like, I wish I could read like I
did back before I had kids. But, you know, that's I read everyone's like, Do you sit reading goals? I'm like, No, I read what I want to
now because half the time I feel like I'm lucky that I have a chance to read for 5 minutes.
[00:44:50] Toni Kirkland
Same. Same.
[00:44:52] Birdy Rivers
Yeah. What's that gets into the mix? It's a whole different ballgame, isn't it?
[00:44:56] Toni Kirkland
Yeah.
[00:44:57] Birdy Rivers
I mean, it's good. And I love my kids, but there's moments where I'm like, I kind of miss that moment, but then I'm like, Wait a minute.
But eventually they're going to be out of the house and then I'm going to have emptiness syndrome. So I might as well enjoy the
craziness while I can.
[00:45:10] Toni Kirkland
But thank you for you for taking time to come talk to us and let us learn a little bit about you.
[00:45:17] Birdy Rivers
Yes. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:45:19] Toni Kirkland
And I'm excited to see all of the fun things you have planned out for 2023.
[00:45:25] Birdy Rivers
Me too. It should be a good, fun year.
